Kamala Harris' 'Call Her Daddy' controversy, explained

If you're a loyal Vox reader, there's a good chance you've probably already decided whether you want to vote in the 2024 election. You could be one of the 58 percent of Americans who say they follow political news “very or fairly closely.” You may also know that there is a debate about whether Vice President Kamala Harris should do more interviews with the News. And you may have heard that Vice President Kamala Harris recently recorded an interview with Alex Cooper, host of the hugely popular women-focused podcast Call her dad.

If you've never heard of this show, that's the point: Harris' interview is part of a series of interviews, appearances and meetings she's doing this week with networks that have large, loyal and harder-to-reach audiences. These engagements are all attempts to reach undecided voters. But it is also a cautious strategy to push back against accusations that it shuns traditional – and harder-hitting – media. By conducting a series of softball interviews, Harris can continue to run a sentiment-based campaign against Donald Trump (who doesn't offer much substance to begin with) and avoid fumbling on policy or details – as she largely stopped doing in 2021 to talk to the press.

These 40 minutes Call her dad The interview, in which Harris spoke primarily about her personal history, professional career, stance on reproductive rights and criticism of her opponent, did not lack substance. But it is also no substitute for more policy-oriented conversations with established media outlets, which still have influence over large parts of the electorate.

At the very least, Harris' team argues that critics of her current media approach are missing the point.

By speaking primarily to influencers, content creators, podcast hosts and radio shows, the vice president can reach the voters he needs right now. “When you consume political information, you want to consume political information. “Most of the remaining voters we need to talk to don’t,” Rob Flaherty, Harris’ deputy campaign manager who formerly led the White House’s digital strategy, said on X on Monday.

But this whole argument ignores some deeper tensions about the media and campaign landscape in 2024. Traditional news consumption is generally on the decline – although it is still the primary source of information for most Americans. Meanwhile, news consumption on alternative and social media is increasing rapidly. So while the influence and reach of the media, journalists and reporters best placed to seriously vet and question politicians and candidates is gradually waning, the influence and popularity of influencers and small-time celebrities is growing.

These media dynamics all clash with the Harris campaign's imperative in recent weeks to find every possible way to challenge marginal voters who are deciding between voting for Harris and not voting, and the less than 5 to 10 percent of voters who are truly undecided are. It is these niche audiences that the Harris and Trump campaigns are trying to reach by sending candidates to these less reputable, non-journalistic platforms. And in doing so, both campaigns can continue to protect their candidates from gaffes, difficult questions or unhelpful media cycles.

Some have justified the vice president's avoidance of hard-hitting interviews by arguing that Trump represents both a unique threat to democracy and a constant source of lies. But their campaign strategy could also be a foretaste of a government that lacks transparency with the press and the public – a recipe for a lack of accountability.

The Call her dad The interview is just one of many appearances by Harris and her running mate, Tim Walz, this week with friendly or non-combative statements. The Vice President will also be a guest The Howard Stern Show Sit down with Stephen Colbert on Tuesday The Late Show and the ladies of The view during the week and then attend a Univision town hall later in the week. She also recorded a harder version 60 minutes I did an interview on Monday night last week and also did a few human interest-style interviews for BuzzFeed and Wired's popular Autocomplete Interview. Walz, meanwhile, took part in an interview with Fox News on Sunday and will appear on an episode of Jimmy Kimmel Live.

This is a combination of new, old and alternative media appearances that contrast with how Harris navigated the media before the fall. The vice president, like President Joe Biden before her, was fairly media-shy. This cautious media strategy allowed Biden and the White House to avoid too much scrutiny early in the campaign season. And that was especially noticeable when compared to Donald Trump's all-encompassing media presence. Even now, as Trump speaks to the press, his candidate, Ohio Senator JD Vance, continues to do a series of interviews with tough or unfriendly media outlets.

Harris has largely continued this approach to the press. She prefers speaking to local TV and news stations, attending meetings or interviews with friendly hosts, and has given only a handful of interviews on cable or network television since running for president – on CNN and MSNBC.

From a campaign perspective, this decision is consistent with what Harris may need to do to shore up support among the Democratic base and persuade undecided voters. For example, she has spoken to journalists and newscasts in Arizona, Michigan, and Pennsylvania, as well as podcasters, TikTokers, and shows aimed at young audiences, women, and Black and Latino audiences. But it also comes at the expense of conversations with large traditional media outlets such as major national newspapers.

The search for friendly spaces for interviews is not just a phenomenon of the left or limited to progressive or liberal-leaning media and politicians. Trump's campaign has done something similar with podcasters and video content creators, befriending YouTuber and former fighter Logan Paul and appearing on a number of podcasts like Full shipping, Last weekend with Theo VonAnd Lex Fridman podcast – or send his vice president, JD Vance, as a replacement.

On the Republican side, it's no coincidence that most of these podcasts and YouTube shows have a predominantly male — and young male — audience. The gender gap in support between Republicans and Democrats has been one of the main themes of the election so far.

But these shows all have a large and loyal audience. Your listeners trust these hosts and influencers; they form parasocial bonds; and they don't necessarily see them in the same category as cable news, newspapers or local news. This dynamic is something that Howard Stern, Alex Cooper, Lex Fridman and Theo Von Kamala Harris or Donald Trump can offer without the disadvantage of confrontational questions or getting caught up in the weeds of politics and litigation.

These developments aside, the journalists and media outlets raising concerns are now quite right about how healthy this all is for democracy and the questioning of elected officials. These podcasts, influencers and online shows are just the latest addition to a patchwork of isolated media ecosystems, each with its own arbiter of truth, facts and mix of opinions. Call her dad Listeners do not necessarily overlap with listeners of The Joe Rogan Experiencewhich probably do not overlap with Pod Save America or The daily Listeners.

At the same time, the anchors and pundits on the rise due to this shift in media and political news consumption are not necessarily the best people to interview politicians or candidates or to delve deeply into politics. The Call her dad The interview, for example, was a good form of infotainment – Harris and Cooper spoke at length about reproductive rights and the Supreme Court's overturning of the ruling Roe v. WadeHarris' work prosecuting sex crimes and her upbringing. But it wasn't necessarily the most demanding interview: Harris didn't offer any new proposals or address positions or plans that she had already published or mentioned in speeches – and she wasn't pressured to do so.

Likewise, Trump's interviews with his favorite podcast hosts don't really generate many headlines in terms of new policies or tough questions about Project 2025 (the conservative blueprint of his presidency) or his attempts to overturn the 2020 presidential election. Whatever messages they generate serve to create viral or meme-worthy moments and instead serve to make him more relatable and relatable. Instead, Vance is accused of being Trump's attack dog, taking on the press, answering tough questions about his past and the president's positions and talking politics.

At this point in the campaign cycle, Theo Von, Lex Fridman and Alex Cooper could have more influence in reaching specific audiences than a nightly news anchor or a Sunday show host. But they cannot do what legacy media, journalists and interviewers can do to question those in power.

But the media ecosystem in 2024 is early evidence of what could be to come, as more and more of these types of creatives gain influence and expand their audiences. Younger Americans now get their news in this form of infotainment primarily from social media, from TikTokers or YouTube or podcasters. You'll get news from a new generation of aggregators like Pop Crave on X/Twitter. And as non-traditional sources gain traction, their audience – younger Millennials and Generation Z – will soon make up the majority of the electorate.